Neighbours C4 Lexia assistance possibly needed.

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Neighbours C4 Lexia assistance possibly needed.

Post by fastandfurryous »

Hi.

This is much too modernz for me, but I am sure someone here might know. Neighbour has a Citroen C4. Not sure of the year as it's a LHD polish-registered car. I guess early 2000's.

It appears to have an immobiliser issue, as at the moment it cranks for about 2-3 seconds, then stops. It will do this repeatedly. There is nothing on the LCD display just above the steering wheel, but I'm guessing that is due to it being in Economy mode at the moment.

This happened when it was locked for the first time in a long time. They normally don't lock the car, as their child has chewed the remote key for it, which now seems to not work. The car will lock and unlock on the key, will lock and unlock on the button on the dash, but is completely ignoring the remote key (or the key is dead... can't tell which.)

Anyone any clues? They are not worried about getting the remote locking to work, just need the car to start and drive!

Thanks in advance.

FF
Last edited by fastandfurryous on 26 Mar 2018, 12:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Neighbours C4 possible immobiliser issue.

Post by GiveMeABreak »

If the kid has chewed the remote then the transponder chip and or electronics are your problem as the immobiliser is in the fob and without this the car will not start.

You need to get the key fob looked at, checked for damage, possibly change the battery.

The car will go into anti scanning mode and lock out the key so stop trying to start it, leave it for 5 minutes. Then insert the key in the ignition, then turn the ignition on only. Do not try to start it. Then hold the locking button in for about 5-10 seconds, remove the key from ignition, reinsert and then try to start. If it doesn’t you’ll need a new key fob from the dealer and the confidential code to get one ordered.

The dealer can get the code for a charge of £15-20.

Lesson here is not to let kids play with your car keys! A new one will cost about £80 to get a new fob, programmed and paired to the car.
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Re: Neighbours C4 possible immobiliser issue.

Post by fastandfurryous »

The child hasn't chewed it recently, possibly not for a year plus. It was working OK, and since locking the car it will no longer start. They key isn't in terrible condition, just the buttons are a bit damaged. You can still feel them click when you press them. I've seen far worse worn-out keys.

I'm wondering.. does the transponder in these more modern keys need the battery to be in good order for it to work? My only experience is of older keys that had the sealed "chunk" (about 6-7mm long) embedded in the key that didn't need power.

Thanks for the procedure. Will try it.
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Re: Neighbours C4 possible immobiliser issue.

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, with that extra information, it is possible that the key needs repairing. Before you do that, get a new battery in the fob first, then follow the procedure. If it hasn't been used in a long while the transponder may just need resynchronising.

Economy mode has no effect on on the immobiliser system - it does not operate on the immobiliser / locking circuit. Good luck.
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Re: Neighbours C4 possible immobiliser issue.

Post by fastandfurryous »

OK. Checked the battery in the key, and it's showing 3.02v, so no issues there. However, the car is still completely ignoring the remote fob. It doesn't remote lock or unlock from the remote.

Tried the procedure above: Ignition on. Hold the lock button for 10 secs, ignition off, key out. Then tried to start the car.. no change. There was absolutely no response from the car after holding the button for 10s. Should there be one?

I've got the key in bits at the moment, just to check there is nothing obviously knackered, and although the plastic is damaged and the swing-out mechanism for the key is broken, the circuit board looks perfect. Nothing obviously wrong, buttons click as they should do. I notice there is no LED to indicate that the buttons on the key are working. Is there any way I can tell that the key is doing what it should?
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Re: Neighbours C4 possible immobiliser issue.

Post by fastandfurryous »

Just had a thought to see if the remote is doing anything... measuring the battery voltage while pressing a button (well well out of range of the car).

Resting battery voltage is 3.02/3.03 volts. When you press a lock/unlock/whateverthethirdbuttonis button, the battery voltage drops momentarily to about 2.6v, then recovers back up to 2.8v. When you let go of the button, it then returns to the resting 3.02v.

Which says two things to me. 1. The remote fob electronics are working, or at least doing *something*. 2. The battery may be a little tired, as that's quite a volt-dip.

I'll get a new battery and try again.
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Re: Neighbours C4 possible immobiliser issue.

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Once you get a new battery, pop it in the ignition (don't try and start it - or you will put it into anti-scanning mode again and that will increase the time before you can try again), ignition only on, Press lock button 5-10 seconds, remove key, shut all doors, try and lock / unlock car with buttons. If it fails to do that, then the key will likely need to be re-paired with the car's BSI - and in this case normal resynchronisation will not be sufficient. It looks like it has been locked out.

To pre-programme the key, you'll need somebody with a Lexia and you will need to know the confidential customer code in order to re-programme the key to the BSI. You can get this code from Citroen for about £15. If you don't have anyone near you With a Lexia, then it may be as well to get the dealer to code it for you at the same time - however they may charge you to do this. Current prices for a C4 Fob are about £114-£122 with an uncut key blade.
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Re: Neighbours C4 possible immobiliser issue.

Post by fastandfurryous »

I'm guessing there's no specific "response" from the car once it has accepted the key as being re-synchronised is there?
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Re: Neighbours C4 possible immobiliser issue.

Post by GiveMeABreak »

No, that's correct. It will either unlock the doors or not and start the car or not.
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Re: Neighbours C4 possible immobiliser issue.

Post by fastandfurryous »

Update on progress.

Got a new battery and fitted it. Did the procedure with ignition on, hold lock button for 10s, ignition off, doors closed.

Car now responds to the remote central locking buttons and will lock and unlock correctly.

Key in, tried to start, and it's still just cranking for 2s and then stopping. Centre console generally says "Mode Economie actif" for a few seconds after the ignition is turned on, but it did at one point say "Auto-Verrou" for about 5 seconds, and then ask to have the time and date set. My rudimentary French translates this as "car locked".

... Lexia now is it? Turns out the car is a bit newer than I thought at 2006, if that makes any difference at all.
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Re: Neighbours C4 possible immobiliser issue.

Post by MikeT »

Definitely needs a diagnostic session.

The cranking for a few seconds then stopping is a clue. I suspect the ECU isn't get all the correct parameters it expects for starting and is protecting the car from further potential damage.
ie, crank sensor signal incoherent or missing.

The Economy Mode is another form of protectionism but is more to do with preserving cranking power in the battery by forbiding the radio to work for instance.

Auto-Verrou appears to be auto door-locking function that invokes once the vehicle has achieved a certain speed.

I would ignore the latter two messages for now and work toward diagnosing the non-start issue first. But before that even, I would ensure the cranking battery is fully-charged and recommend it is charged in-vehicle, without disconnecting the terminals.
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Re: Neighbours C4 possible immobiliser issue.

Post by fastandfurryous »

If it is some sort of sensor issue, it's a fairly big co-incidence, as the car had been running just fine until it was locked for the first time in a very long time (like well over a year, possibly longer)

Good to know that the "Auto-Verrou" message is only to do with the auto-locking rather than anything else.

Couple of thoughts. I've never come across an immobiliser system that only allows the car to crank for a few seconds then stops. Is this the normal mode of operation for a locked-out car? Also, the fuel pump runs when the ignition is turned on, which I would have thought would not be called for if the vehicle was immobilised? Or is that a complete red-herring?

The battery voltage/condition is not an issue. It's been fully charged a week or so ago, although this was done (by the owner, not me!) off the vehicle, so might this have anything to do with the issue? The vehicle was sans-battery for at least 24hrs, if not longer.

Given that reading the codes on this and working out what is actually wrong would be a Very Good Idea, does anyone have Lexia anywhere in West Sussex, the nearer to Pulborough the better?? The owner would be *most* appreciative!

.. or is this something that can be done with a cheapo bluetooth code reader for £5 off ebay?
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Re: Neighbours C4 possible immobiliser issue.

Post by MikeT »

AFAIK, remote/central locking has no effect on engine management. The confusion comes from the fact the key fob contains both systems - remote locking and immobiliser authority.
If they were dependant on each other, I think there'd be a lot more cars scrapped judging by the frequency of users reporting "the remotes have never worked since I bought it". As long as it drives, they're happy to manually lock the car and live with the problem, passing the problem on when they sell it - like mine was.

Bearing in mind it could be out of date, it might be worth checking this thread for Lexia owners nearest to Pullborough?
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=56452
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Re: Neighbours C4 Lexia assistance possibly needed.

Post by fastandfurryous »

So it's looking like a plug-in and check for stored codes etc. is going to be the way to go.

As the car is somewhat immobile, is there anyone within sensible distance of RH20 area who has a lexia? I may be able to get my flatbed trailer sorted soon to be able to transport the car to someone, but if that can be avoided and just get it running again, that would be brilliant.

Also.. is there a thread somewhere about how to go about getting/setting up a Lexia-enabled laptop? The hardware is the easy bit. Guidance with the software would be brilliant.
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Re: Neighbours C4 Lexia assistance possibly needed.

Post by Ceenine »

fastandfurryous, did you get the car sorted and how? My vehicle has exact same problem here in Tasmania
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