Aisin Tf-80 / AM6 Oil Change Questions (Mini-Guide Page 4)

[elma]

Surely an o ring can be sourced anywhere. I have a case of metric ones and a case of imperial ones. I just replace them with the same size if i disturb them.

Maybe not!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shu ... _concerns

Oh yeah, Richard Feynman who got to the bottom of that had a most interesting van. Cant put a link up as I've been abused by wine this eve.

[myglaren]

Must buy some of his books - there are some decent YouTube clips of him.

[EDC5]

I'm slowly working my way through this list: http://www.sciencefocus.com/news/top-5- ... nman-books , It was suggested by a lecturer that every good chemist should have read a few of his books!

Yeah, although not quite on the scale of Challenger, oil pissing out of my gearbox would be a personal disaster so I think I'll play it safe this time and try and get hold of the proper O-ring from a dealers

Just curious about the JWS3309 vs AW-1 debate... I wonder if the only reason they say never to use AW-1 in the older AM6's is due to the unfavourable mixing with 3309.... if you were able to fully drain the gearbox would Aw-1 actually damage the older gearbox?

[NewcastleFalcon]

Just curious about the JWS3309 vs AW-1 debate... I wonder if the only reason they say never to use AW-1 in the older AM6's is due to the unfavourable mixing with 3309.... if you were able to fully drain the gearbox would Aw-1 actually damage the older gearbox?

Another thread which was entitled "Automatic Choice" has amid the discussion my own contributions to the debate and my own dilemma which I resolve by not resolving. As at the time of the post I had done 95,000 miles since my AM6 rebuild on the same oil.

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... at#p466238

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... at#p466274

I have experience of an AM6 box requiring a rebuild at 60,000 miles. The problem....coolers in radiators (not applicable in the C5 case I understand) which result in water/antifreeze ingress to the transmission fluid. As part of the rebuild I got an external cooler fitted and touch wood I have now done a further 120,000 miles without a transmission oil change and its working well enough at the moment, and when it is, it is an excellent very smooth box, does very high speeds at ridiculously low revs, economy is great and has plenty of poke available at all times.

Regards Neil

[EDC5]

Thats a good endorsemsnt of the box to be honest.

The cooler Citroen use is a water to oil heat exchanger, Vauxhall and Alfa Romeo also use this setup but it appears to be a different heat exchanger as each TF-80 has its own manufacturer specific adapter plate, the volvo one seems to have pipes for a front mounted rad instead of the exchanger setup for example.

Was your Tf-80 in a citroen/peugeot when it failed? If so I'd be very keen to see how you managed to fit an external cooler.

There's an excellent blog post here about someone doing this to a TF-80 on an Alfa, https://jabawoki.com/2016/01/27/alfa-15 ... ification/ He had to make his own adapter plate.

It looks like a good idea to me.

[NewcastleFalcon]

Was your Tf-80 in a citroen/peugeot when it failed? If so I'd be very keen to see how you managed to fit an external cooler.

My box is in a Vectra, but the heat exchanger in the radiator Achilles heel, also affects other models, and the cooler was fitted as part of the whole rebuild job. Not that complicated to D.I.Y. I wouldn't have thought using the flow/return connections provided to the existing heat exchanger and a bit of extra pipework/ mounting.

Regards Neil

[EDC5]

I see, from what I've gathered, the PSA heat exchanger seems different, and hopefully more reliable than the GM unit.

I'm more interested in the advantages/disadvantages of a front mounted oil cooler. I don't think they're thermostatically controlled therefore in winter the warm-up time on the 'box would be a lot longer... Is this a problem?

The obvious advantage being that the box would never reach the 100 Degrees that the engine coolant could during high stress.

Considering Citroen use the same heat exchanger on the V6 C6's I'd assume they've done the maths and worked out that even under a high load the box would never overheat even while sponging off the engines own cooling.

Do you have any pics of your oil cooler and the connection plate to the TF-80?

[NewcastleFalcon]

Apologies for the duff photography but this first one is the original connection/original pipes coming out of the box directly..no adaptions made as far as I know.

n falcon own work

To fit the new cooler, I presume the 2 pipes running up to the radiator connections were detatched/cut and joined to the new cooler pipes. Cooler mounted at front just behind grill.

n falcon own work

This makes things much clearer, rather than my dubious photography of the real thing .
This diagram is from an Astra but you can see the pipes and how they connect to the box. Looks like the pipes are pretty easy to join up to the new cooler pipes preserving the "ends" at the end of the flexible hose bits.

http://workshop-manuals.com/vauxhall/as ... j-8602.jpg

Regards Neil

[EDC5]

That's very interesting, thanks for uploading that.
So do the vauxhalls have a remote Oil/Water heat exchanger then? or am I getting confused?

On the Alfa, that guy from the blog had to make his own adaptor plate as the oil/water heat exchanger was bolted onto the TF-80 like the Citroen solution

[NewcastleFalcon]

In the vectra the heat exchanger is literally inside the radiator.

Regards Neil

[EDC5]

I understand, in that case I can see why it makes sense to install a separate rad for the oil as there isn't much faffing to get the feed and return lines to the new rad.

For anyone else looking for the O-Ring and Crush Washer, numbers 6 and 5 in the image below:


I have found that SAABits stocks them, and can be found by searching the GM part number

O-Ring, PSA: 220945 , GM: 93183574 - http://www.saabits.com/saab-original/sa ... 574-o-ring

Crush Washer, PSA: 220923 , GM: 93183578 - http://www.saabits.com/saab-original/saab-93183578-seal

Both together is less than £5 ex. postage.
I bought 4 of each as I intend to change 3L of oil annually

[EDC5]

Just an update, I called into my local Vauxhall garage today and asked to order the Washer and O-Ring, after failing to locate the parts based on the GM part number I quoted I produced an exploded diagram of the gearbox drain plug assembly from a Vectra and just like that he miraculously 'found' the parts..... not sure what was going on there.

Either way, he ordered the parts for quick delivery so by the weekend I'll have everything I need for the flush.

All in, I was charged £5.35 for both, not bad at all.

[Gibbo2286]

Yeah, from what I've read the Euro 4 engines use the 3309 oil. I'm not sure if it has to be ESSO but I've chosen Mobil oil, (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mobil-ATF-330 ... xyj4hTGZJM)


(Huge pic )

I'm sure that oil would be fine but for me I decided for my own piece of mind that Mobil would be best.

From the sounds of it your friend would be more than capable of the job, the main issue is knowing the gearbox oil temp using a Lexia. The instructions I posted say 60 (-2,+8) degrees so there is a bit of a margin.

I'm just waiting to source a compression washer for the drain plug then I'll give it a go.

Esso and Mobil are the same company 'Exxon Mobil'
http://www.exxonmobil.co.uk/UK-English/default.aspx

[milleplod]

It amazes me that there seem to be more private owners willing to have a go at this job than there are 'professionals' (gearbox 'specialists', garages). I suppose 'the professionals' are scared of messing it up and the comeback that that would entail, but it does say rather a lot about their 'professionalism', doesn't it!

I've given up on trying to get mine done - if any symptoms start to develop, it'll be easier to get rid of the car, as much as I love it!

Pete

[Gibbo2286]

It amazes me that there seem to be more private owners willing to have a go at this job than there are 'professionals' (gearbox 'specialists', garages). I suppose 'the professionals' are scared of messing it up and the comeback that that would entail, but it does say rather a lot about their 'professionalism', doesn't it!

I've given up on trying to get mine done - if any symptoms start to develop, it'll be easier to get rid of the car, as much as I love it!

Pete

I suspect that the professionals aren't worried about messing up but are worried that the owner thinks that changing the oil is a fix for a worn out box and when it turns out not to be the professional will be expected to take the blame......and the cost of fixing a 2 grand plus autobox.