Car jumping out of 5th gear and now unable to select it

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Re: Car jumping out of 5th gear and now unable to select it

Post by RichardW »

Tom,

All those parts are 5th gear. The top shaft is the bit driven by the engine. The bottom shaft is the one that drives the diff and then the wheels. There are basically 5 of those sets along the shaft, each making a gear. The 3 parts on the bottom shaft (2, 5, 6) are the synchro unit. The gear wheels (2) are in constant mesh, but the bottom one is not splined to the shaft. Item 6 is splined to the shaft, and when you want to engage the gear, a selector fork slides the synchro unit along the shaft so that 2 and 6 are connected and the lower shaft is driven. It's possible if you've no longer got 5th that item 6 has moved back and is now no longer in mesh with the shaft - or the teeth are broken on the synchro unit so it can engage the drive.

The box on ebay is stamped with the correct number, so should be right for your car - I suspect that it was not originally fitted to a 110 as advertised, but a 90 same as yours.
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Re: Car jumping out of 5th gear and now unable to select it

Post by tomthered »

So if Item 6 was replaced with a suitable donor from a second hand box that should resolve matters, assuming that it wasnt just the locking nut that needed tightening. It makes some sense now although cannot get my head round how it works, sorry for being thick but each to their own speciality. I may get that box then, providing nothing cheaper comes up.
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Re: Car jumping out of 5th gear and now unable to select it

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Tom, I'd suggest you get a mechanic to pop the end cover off and diagnose the problem properly before you get involved in any further expense, it might be just a case of re- fitting and re-tightening the nut.
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Northern_Mike

Re: Car jumping out of 5th gear and now unable to select it

Post by Northern_Mike »

tomthered wrote: I may get that box then, providing nothing cheaper comes up.
Getting someone to pop the end cover off and check it's just not a loose nut would be the cheapest thing to do first before going buying replacement gearboxes!
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Re: Car jumping out of 5th gear and now unable to select it

Post by tomthered »

OK guys will bow down to your greater experience. I have arranged for someone to take the cover off and have a look. Is it feasible to buy just the locking nut, just in case the one that was on is knackered for some reason, or is it usually fallen off and loose, so the purchase and replacement option is not necessary?
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Re: Car jumping out of 5th gear and now unable to select it

Post by RichardW »

Tom

The nuts are available separately, from the list I posted earlier:


0000230459 SHAFT FIX NUT 1.77 GBP 2.12 GBP 2.12 GBP - is item 8 on the drawing (the one that probably hasn't come loose!)

0000230481 SHAFT FIX NUT 3.19 GBP 3.83 GBP 3.83 GBP - is item 7 on the drawing (the one that might have come loose!)

It's listed as 20 X 150 - 11 which means it's M20 x 1.5mm thread pitch x 11mm thick. It is staked into the shaft (or should be!) - depending on the state of the nut, it should be possible to re-use it, it might be possible to buy a new one cheaper than Citroen (and which will have a proper hex on it!)
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Re: Car jumping out of 5th gear and now unable to select it

Post by tomthered »

Richard so for £5.95 it's worth buying one of each before the guy does the job just in case? Could I ask what "staked to the shaft" means? Does it mean like a split pin through it? If I ask for M20 x 1.5mm would that be the right nut at 11mm thick?


EDIT just checked and there is a Citroen Parts hub place at Trafford Park that I should be able to get it from. Unsure if B&Q or somewhere else would do these or even Ebay?
Last edited by tomthered on 15 Apr 2015, 13:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Car jumping out of 5th gear and now unable to select it

Post by Gibbo2286 »

tomthered wrote:Richard so for £5.95 it's worth buying one of each before the guy does the job just in case? Could I ask what "staked to the shaft" means? Does it mean like a split pin through it?


EDIT just checked and there is a Citroen Parts hub place at Trafford Park that I should be able to get it from. Unsure if B&Q or somewhere else would do these or even Ebay?
The shaft has a machined groove, the nut has a thin rim which is knocked into the groove to lock it into place and stop it unwinding.
Man is, by nature, a lazy beast, he does not need twice encouraging to do nothing.
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Re: Car jumping out of 5th gear and now unable to select it

Post by tomthered »

Thanks Gibbo2286 - I see now so I am better going to Citroen than buying elsewhere, as the metal bit can be knocked over to stop it unwinding?
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Re: Car jumping out of 5th gear and now unable to select it

Post by tomthered »

Right guys problem found. It seems the gearbox was losing oil and the brass selector fork has worn. Question can these be bought separately and any idea of part number and cost. I assume if you can buy all the others you can buy this. Depending on price I may end up getting a second hand gearbox. Pictures included below.

Image

Image

Image
Last edited by tomthered on 21 Apr 2015, 21:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Car jumping out of 5th gear and now unable to select it

Post by Peter.N. »

The cheapest way to get one is from a scrap gearbox, otherwise its likely to be expensive.

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Re: Car jumping out of 5th gear and now unable to select it

Post by tomthered »

cheers Peter will sort a second hand box out. At least I know what the problem is.
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Re: Car jumping out of 5th gear and now unable to select it

Post by RichardW »

Always good to find something, Tom!

Fork comes complete with new shaft and bolt / roll pin etc, it's not too bad....

Part Number Description Quantity Price excl. VAT Price incl. VAT Total incl. VAT Selection
0000255825 PIN+FORK 64.72 GBP 77.66 GBP 77.66 GBP
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Re: Car jumping out of 5th gear and now unable to select it

Post by tomthered »

Thanks Richard, thats £3 less than the second hand box. The mechanic said he didn't know yet whether that should solve the 5th gear issue, but I suggested a second hand box and taking the assembly off that. He said that if it was only £20-£30 for the selector that was OK but any more and it might be better to go the second hand route. I could buy the selector but what if it wasn't enough and I needed to buy more? In your honest opinion do you think it could need more parts?
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Re: Car jumping out of 5th gear and now unable to select it

Post by RichardW »

There's got to be a risk that the synchro is worn, so I think if you can get a box for £80 it would be worth having the full set of parts on hand just in case. As long of course that the SH box 5th gear is OK.... :lol:
Richard W
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