1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

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Bob L'eponge
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by Bob L'eponge »

northern_mike wrote: EGR has been on diesel cars for about 20 years hasn't it, at least, and longer on bigger vehicles? It's only recently it seems to have become a problem with modern engines.
Or an imagined problem, with the real issues laying elsewhere, such as extended oil change intervals.
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by Bob L'eponge »

DickieG wrote:One possible reason for 1.6 HDi's having this problem with the turbo filter getting blocked is that when the oil is drained using the traditional method of removing the sump plug then a fair old puddle of sludgy oil will be left behind in the sump due to the shape of the sump as the sump plug is recessed
On the 1.6 Hdi in my 2009 X7 C5 (which so far has done approaching 100,000 miles without any problems at all) the boss for the sump plus has a hole drilled through the side of the threads, so allowing the sump to drain fully.
Last edited by Bob L'eponge on 25 Aug 2014, 08:57, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by Northern_Mike »

Mandrake wrote:I would have thought a proper suction machine would be quicker, easier and cleaner than draining by the sump plug.

Pull the dipstick out, poke the hose into the dipstick tube, press a button on the machine and a few minutes later the oil is all in a waste container with no spillage or pouring oil between tray and waste container. I'd sure prefer that method if I had the machine! :lol:
I have a Sealey sucky-pump thing, it's obviously a manual one, holds about 7 litres I believe. It's so much easier to drain the oil with it than mess about getting the car up on ramps, and from checking the first few oil changes I did with it, it does get all the oil out on the Berlingo, the DRK (1108cc Renault motor) and a C5 2.0 HDi. I think they're bloody great things. It takes a few minutes longer as the oil has to come up a thinner tube than the sump drain, but I don't need to get the car on ramps, I don't need to remove undertrays, I don't need to actually lie under it and hope I've got my oil drain pan in the right place (and mop up if I haven't). On all my cars I can reach the filter from above, so a handily placed rag and a quick twist with the oil filter pliers sees it removed. This reminds me that I have to service the Berlingo again!
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by Bob L'eponge »

RichardW wrote:AFAIK Dickie the Citroen advice is NOT to use a suction pump on these....(eg here, but I suppose usual caveats apply to stuff found on the web!
Good point. I have tried to find an official version of that oil change procedure (such as an Info'Rapide notice), both in English and French, and haven't had any success so far. I thought that perhaps that procedure might have been originally taken from a Ford document in relation to their Duratec branded version of the engine, but I haven't found anything with the same wording via that route either. A pdf search brings up just one document: the non Citroen-branded list of instructions that everyone else links to. So far I have yet to see a reference to a French version of that procedure on any of the French forums. They do have pages of stuff about the banjo bolt strainer issue though!

Of course, all this doesn't prove that Citroen didn't release such a document to its dealers...

Perhaps an importer somewhere issued such a notice to its dealers?
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by RichardW »

The cross drillings are in the sump on our C4 - the sump is all but empty when you remove it, probably less than 100ml left in. A lot more runs out of the oil pick up when you unbolt it, and then drips out of the bottom of the engine over the following hour or so - mostly on the exhaust flexi - bet that will smoke when it gets hot again :twisted:
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Post by demag »

Life is good. Been hdi less for a month or so and the little Scenic excels. This is the first petrol car used as main transport for many years and apart from slow tank fill up and slightly vague steering its OK.
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by poldark »

Lighty wrote:The exhaust filter, or DPF needs to be removed to get the oil feed pipe off, the filter is located inside the lower banjo bolt.
Removing the dpf is quite a big job, especially on your 1st attempt, but there is nothing impossible, it's just nuts & bolts.
We remove the radiator on most cars for easier access.
I would strongly recommend removing the filter on ALL 1.6 hdi engines. We have had some well looked after vehicles with turbo failure, so don't think yours will be ok.
Sorry for a "newbie" question but recently bought a 1.6HDi Picasso (92bhp) and pleased to have found this info.

I've just done a preventative oil change although supplying Independent dealer reckoned they did one when I bought it (end Dec '14), by the state of the oil filter I seriously doubt it. Sadly hadn't read about checking the sump thread drain hole beforehand, will move to 6-8k interval now.

Anyway my question is about removing the filter on the bottom banjo for the turbo oil feed. Thanks to the photos on page 3 (no not those ones!) I'll be able to locate it, but can I remove and check without dropping the oil again. I plan to remove the mesh (or newer tube type) filter and refit, without the engine running what is the oil flow likely to be?

Many thanks
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by RichardW »

Welcome along!

Yes, you can do it without dropping the oil. Only a little bit will run out of the pipe to the turbo when you take the bolt out. You may well be able to do it on a 90 BHP non DPF car without having to take the radiator out - just depends on how much room there is to get the heat shield off.
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by demag »

Poldark yes definitely remove the filter from the turbo feed asap if you want to save your engine. It's not as straightforward as it sounds and may involve dropping the exhaust and removing the heat shields as well to reach it but is a must. My 08 Berlingo wrecked two turbos within 3000 miles because the Citroen main dealer couldn't be arsed to do the job properly even though I discussed the turbo oil feed filter with them beforehand. I then had to threaten court action because they didn't want to honour their own warranty. If you can then do it yourself for peace of mind.
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by hamster99 »

My wife just bought a brand new C4 1.6 eHDI and the dealer said the service interval was 16,000 miles. Can't beleive Citroen are trusting that engine for that long knowing the history unless they have improved recent ones.

Having experienced the turbo failure and oil issues in her C3 needless to say it will be getting an oil and filter change at least once if not twice between services.
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I do know that the PSA group have made changes to that engine (although I cannot say what). In my previous job I had a Pug Partner with a 1.6HDi engine, and I raised this point with the fleet services team. They got back to me to say that the engine had been modified since this problem had been identified (at least one change is the banjo bolt filter).
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by Lighty »

These newer hdi engines are quite a lot different to the old model, we have not yet had a turbo failure or oil feed issue as yet. The new service schedule is indeed 16000 miles , this is way too much in my view.
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by Peter.N. »

I would certainly agree about the oil change intervals, I'm sure they are the cause of many failures, I change my 8 vlave Hdi at 8,000, I used to change the XUD's at 5,000. Never had a turbo fail in 25 years and getting on for half a million miles.

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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by PhilGreaves »

for what its worth.

I've heard from several reliable sources that changes were carried out in 2009 to prevent turbo failure- but no one seems sure exactly what. But 2009 is always referenced. Ford seem to be behind the curve though in terms of updating the 1.6 unit too in other areas, so avoid If I were you.

I've discussed the oil with several people and all say that the oil should be able to stand up to 12k a year etc.

Now what exactly changed in 2009? was it just this banjo bolt thingy? I don't know, but would be interesting to know given that we've now had several people posting with 2009 c5s/4s etc who haven't had this problem. Would it be possible for someone knowledgeable to look at e.g. 2 c3s either side if this date and work out what has changed? Is it just the banjo/filter design, could it be software too? Turbo manufacturer?

For what its worth our c3 (2009) was serviced last week. No problems, oil clean and was drained fully (sucked too) and replaced with total <insert long complicated name here>. No sign of loose injector seals either. Asked about modifying sump but mechanic said no as it would involve removing the exhaust which is too much money on these. Ditto with altering the service schedule.

As someone else has said though as more and more vehicles are using these engines but *not* failing there must be some change occurring? Don't the new minis use it now? has anyone looked at these?

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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by myglaren »

My daughter was, surprisingly enough, looking at a C3 1.6 HDi to replace her Clio. She usually likes bigger cars - she has had a couple of SAABs and a Rover 75 among others. I suggested a Jaguar V12 but she has decided to go for economical for a while.

Advised her to forget the C3 and explained about the 1.6 problems and she said "That's why it was so cheap then"! - turbo failure.
She is going to hang onto the Clio until it flies to bits :)

Eldest daughter has a petrol C3 that she has had only a couple of minor electrical problems with, easily fixed.
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