Gearbox Grumble? (4HP20)

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Ben82
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Re: Gearbox Grumble? (4HP20)

Post by Ben82 »

Edited the 2nd pic to show what I think is the level plug bolt :)
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Re: Gearbox Grumble? (4HP20)

Post by Mandrake »

Hmm, is that a normal hex head bolt with a washer ? If so I'm dubious of that being the level plug, especially when it looks like it's bolting something else to the side of the gearbox.

Usually a level or drain plug would have an Allen key or square key drive. I could be wrong though. Anyone ?
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Re: Gearbox Grumble? (4HP20)

Post by Ben82 »

Mandrake wrote: PS because your images are close cropped and the camera is at a various different angles its a bit hard to identify which way is up, which way is front and back etc :lol:
Towards the drain plug is towards the back of the car :) So they're always from under the front of the car facing towards the back (and up of course). :)
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Re: Gearbox Grumble? (4HP20)

Post by Ben82 »

Mandrake wrote:Hmm, is that a normal hex head bolt with a washer ? If so I'm dubious of that being the level plug, especially when it looks like it's bolting something else to the side of the gearbox.

Usually a level or drain plug would have an Allen key or square key drive. I could be wrong though. Anyone ?
After dinner I'll go down and have another look armed with the camera. Shall try taking one from the same angle as the picture from the document.

Unless someone chimes in (Jim?) to confirm or deny its the right thing
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Re: Gearbox Grumble? (4HP20)

Post by Ben82 »



Hopefully enough perspective there too :) Can't see anything else that would be the level plug?
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Re: Gearbox Grumble? (4HP20)

Post by Ben82 »

Going by:
http://www.christiantena.net/motor/peug ... lcheck.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =3&t=10068" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and
http://www.xjslegende.fr/pub/renault/bva/1225838249.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm starting to think it's on the rear end of the gearbox. Making probably the only potential way of trying to get it level is 4 axle stands... as I think it'll be unlikely to be level with the fronts on the ramps and getting the rear up on axle stands.
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Re: Gearbox Grumble? (4HP20)

Post by Mandrake »

Yep, that document you just linked clearly shows the level plug at the rear of the gearbox next to one of the drive shafts. :( What a right b*****d of a place for it to be. :evil:

I wonder if it could potentially be reached from the top side down the back of the engine ? Otherwise it might be a job that can only be done safely with a hoist or a pit. #-o

Surely someone else has changed the oil in one of these no-dipstick 4HP20's before and can chime in with the practicalities of how to actually access the level plug... anyone ? :?

All I can say is I'm so thankful mine has the dipstick at the front...
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Re: Gearbox Grumble? (4HP20)

Post by Ben82 »

Good shout on the top down approach, will have a look, might have to put the car on the ramps and find from underneath first so I know what and where I'm looking for from above, but will try looking from above first.

If it's not possible and no one else chimes in I guess the next step is to see if anyone rents a car pit/hoist out.. doubtful... and If not then what I'll probably do is fill it up with the amount that comes out, then take it to the indy and say that I've changed the ATF and need the level checked :) Having my lexia with me might pique their interest. Hopefully checking the level should only take ~10mins or so. (Indy is less than 2km away by car - less than 1km walking! so shouldn't be too much of a hassle)
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Re: Gearbox Grumble? (4HP20)

Post by Mandrake »

I always used to painstakingly measure the level in mine after a change - under fill it by a few hundred mLs, let the engine idle, put it through the gears, make sure the temperature was correct, check the dipstick, stop the engine, add a bit more oil, rinse and repeat... slow and painful.

In more recent times I've realised that I get exactly 4 litres out if the oil was at the correct level previously, so I drain it, and put exactly 4 litres in. I don't even use a measuring jug, the measuring scale on the side of the 1 litre bottles I get the oil in is accurate enough. The last two times I've done it this way and then checked the level at the end and it was spot on.

Once you know precisely how much your gearbox takes (yours might be different) its actually better to put a pre-determined amount in because it corrects for any previous errors in the level, for example if the oil was half a litre low before and you measure what came out and put the same amount in you'll be half a litre low again... but if you just drain it out and put the exact amount in (in my case 4 litres) it doesn't matter if it was too high or too low before, you'll end up at the correct level, even if it isn't at exactly the right temperature! :)
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Re: Gearbox Grumble? (4HP20)

Post by Ben82 »

Top Down approach is totally out of the question, would be trying to get onto the level plug blind, let alone trying to actually see if there's any oil coming out #-o

I think I may have found a solution though (worth investigating more at least)... A petrol station chain over here OKQ8, have various facilities (some are like UK ones with just petrol and maybe a car wash), however the one closest to me has "Billyft" (Car lift), from the info I can grasp online, they rent these (DIY halls) out from between around 60-120SEK per hour (so about £6-£12), and you take your own tools along etc.

Even at £12 per hour that's going to be cheaper than the local indy.
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Re: Gearbox Grumble? (4HP20)

Post by Mandrake »

Sounds like a plan. :)
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Re: Gearbox Grumble? (4HP20)

Post by Ben82 »

Good news.... It is how I thought, basically a car lift... you go there whenever, park up on the lift, and then go into the shop, they give you the key. Once you're finished you go hand it back and you get charged 2kr per minute (about 20p), so an hour would cost £12, but I doubt it'll take a whole hour?

Will see if I can do that tomorrow evening then after work :)
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Re: Gearbox Grumble? (4HP20)

Post by Northern_Mike »

Ben82 wrote:Good news.... It is how I thought, basically a car lift... you go there whenever, park up on the lift, and then go into the shop, they give you the key. Once you're finished you go hand it back and you get charged 2kr per minute (about 20p), so an hour would cost £12, but I doubt it'll take a whole hour?

Will see if I can do that tomorrow evening then after work :)

I'll have to come to Sweden in my car and service it myself in one of these places. Sounds brilliant.
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Re: Gearbox Grumble? (4HP20)

Post by Ben82 »

Northern_Mike wrote:
Ben82 wrote:Good news.... It is how I thought, basically a car lift... you go there whenever, park up on the lift, and then go into the shop, they give you the key. Once you're finished you go hand it back and you get charged 2kr per minute (about 20p), so an hour would cost £12, but I doubt it'll take a whole hour?

Will see if I can do that tomorrow evening then after work :)



I'll have to come to Sweden in my car and service it myself in one of these places. Sounds brilliant.
Might not need to come that far, I found this in the UK prior to finding the Swedish one: http://u-spanner.co.uk/pricing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Only downside I can see with the OKQ8 one is that it's in the same hall as the "Tvätta själv" (self service car wash), and they have pressure jets for washing the cars with hot water. It may have been because there was 3-4 people at it whilst we were in there, but it felt a bit hot and humid. But we shall see :) It's good to know it's there now too, so if I need to work on the car in winter, it's a place to go too.
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Re: Gearbox Grumble? (4HP20)

Post by Bandit12 »

Crikey Ben, this simple task of draining the gearbox oil is turning into a major operation! Citroen really don't make things easy :-).
As you know our cars share the same type auto gearbox and I'm plannin on doing the same as you.
Thanks for all the photos of where the various plugs are cos that certainly makes life easier, what tools do you need to remove them? Allen keys, torx head sockets? My girlfriends Peugeot used a square shaped socket of about 6mm if I remember correctly. Still got it in the toolbox somewhere:-)

On another note I popped into my local LCP auto supplier and asked about the oil. Teh bloke fed my car reg into the computer and told me i needed to use Comma auto gearbox oil at £9 a litre. Does this sound about right or should I just go to Opie oils and have 4 litres posted to me?

Good find on hiring the hydraulic ramps Ben and hope the oil change goes well

Bandit :-)
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2009 Citroën C5 X7 2.0 hdi (136bhp) exclusive estate (Oh wow what an upgrade) 8-)
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