54 C3 1.4HDI non-start FIXED

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MikeT
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Re: 54 C3 1.4HDI non-start

Post by MikeT » 10 Aug 2018, 21:22

Oooh, this is fun.
Pulled the radio out and found a nest of wires with a lot of bullet connections (a couple not terminated) and two black boxes.
IMG_20180810_192508.jpg
I think I found the insurance tracker and removed it.
IMG_20180810_203011.jpg
Alas, it seems to have made no difference. Tried another BSI reset, substituting the hazards for the sidelights, but still the same.

Lexia reports there's still a BSI permanent fault of "Communication fault with the switch module at the steering wheel ECU"

I cleared the Instrument Panel (DATAB) fault last session so it's showing as NO faults (for now!).

While in there, I trawled through many BSI parameters and settings and all seems normal (except it reported the front left door status as "???").
I could even actuate all the lights (except the sides) and wipers etc. So the COM 2000 certainly is being a naughty boy and will be checking power connections next.

Needless to say, I could get no dialogue with the "COM 2002" Switch Module ECU.

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Re: 54 C3 1.4HDI non-start

Post by EDC5 » 10 Aug 2018, 22:51

What a nightmare. Any evidence the insurance tracker has been installed incorrectly?

Do these 'black boxes' access the ECU's directly (through the VAN network perhaps) to snoop on speed etc or is it all done via GPS ?

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Re: 54 C3 1.4HDI non-start

Post by GiveMeABreak » 10 Aug 2018, 23:04

It is supposed to be done via GPS Elis, depending on the type - but I don't trust them and would never have anyone touch the wiring from a third party source - I have no faith in these installer's abilities to understand the car's systems and do the job properly - and guaranteed there will be no comeback trying to shift the blame to the Insurance company I'll bet!

@Mike:- that looks a right spaghetti boloknese in there - what a mess! What are those connectors going into what looks like the radio Quadlock connector? That doesn't look right at all.

I could let you have a few pics of our C3's RD4 connections tomorrow - it is a later CAN version of the C3, but has the RD4 radio system. You have the RD3, but it might at least give you some pointers.

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Re: 54 C3 1.4HDI non-start

Post by EDC5 » 10 Aug 2018, 23:38

Fully agree Marc. I only trust myself with my car's wiring. I think you have to be pretty electronically sympathetic with these cars as they're more mobile computer networks above everything else.

Apparently some cars on finance have these black boxes too; they can disable the car remotely should the terms of the finance be broken. Scary!

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Re: 54 C3 1.4HDI non-start

Post by wheeler » 11 Aug 2018, 08:49

Thats not an insurance black box, thats a handsfree kit (nokia if im not mistaken). The smaller box is a telemute loom to route the telephone calls through the cars own speakers.

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Re: 54 C3 1.4HDI non-start

Post by GiveMeABreak » 11 Aug 2018, 09:04

That’s interesting, but we do know that there was a black box insurance device fitted too according to th OP in the original thread, so where is that if not this then I wonder?

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Re: 54 C3 1.4HDI non-start

Post by wheeler » 11 Aug 2018, 09:16

The older VAN/CAN C3 uses an ISO connector rather than quadlock type for the radio. It may just look worse than it is in there & quite normal to have unconnected terminals to fit different configurations. They are definitely compatible (if fitted correctly) as i have fitted hundreds of them.
There is a chance it may have gone faulty so best to remove it completely for the time being at least.
All you should be left with is the wiring i have highlighted in yellow.
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19E65CE3-CC80-434A-9733-88D9FC5AF501.jpeg
19E65CE3-CC80-434A-9733-88D9FC5AF501.jpeg (50.22 KiB) Viewed 74 times

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Re: 54 C3 1.4HDI non-start

Post by wheeler » 11 Aug 2018, 09:37

GiveMeABreak wrote:
11 Aug 2018, 09:04
That’s interesting, but we do know that there was a black box insurance device fitted too according to th OP in the original thread, so where is that if not this then I wonder?

Every insurance Black box i have ever seen is either plugged straight into the OBD socket or a 2 wire connection direct to the battery then just cable tied or double sided tape straight onto the battery or battery box. The straight onto battery one seems more common.

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Re: 54 C3 1.4HDI non-start

Post by GiveMeABreak » 11 Aug 2018, 13:00

Here are the Audio Connections:
Audio Controls COMMS Unit.PNG
Audio Controls COMMS Unit.PNG (27.18 KiB) Viewed 63 times
CodeColourDescription
CV00N/ACOMMS Unit
BECEZBlueBattery + BSI
XC1BWhiteBody VAN 1
9013ZMauvebody 1 Van data bus 1
9012ZWhitebody 1 Van data bus 1
MCV0BGreen / YellowMC30 earth
6V GRGrey6 Pin Connector
RD3 Unit.PNG
CodeColourDescription
8V NRBlack8 Pin Connector
8410N/AAudio Unit
9004ERedComfort Van data bus /
9005EGreenComfort Van data bus B
XE15DBrownComfort VAN
8454AOrangeAmpli + switch command
BECE2GreenBSI + after ignition output
M8410Green / YellowMC34 Earth
BSI A.PNG
The BSI where the above connections go

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Re: 54 C3 1.4HDI non-start

Post by wheeler » 11 Aug 2018, 13:43

So pin 5 on the grey connetor of the com2000 should be permanent live, pin 4 should be earth & pin 6 should be 12v when the network is awake. Pins 1&2 are the data & data/ wires, you wont get much out them without a scope.
A wiring diagram for the headlamps should give us the rest of the wiring info we need for the time being.

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Re: 54 C3 1.4HDI non-start

Post by MikeT » 11 Aug 2018, 13:51

Sorry I was a bit vague yesterday, let me clarify.

As wheeler says, the fitted Clarion RD3 takes what I understand are two ISO connectors (plus antenna), not quadlocks.
The harness looks like a typical ISO adapter harness.

The larger black box, as wheeler has correctly identified, is labelled as a Nokia HFU-5 (hands-free kit).
The speaker and antenna wires were cut and unconnected.
Also connected within the harness is a smaller black box, label illegible so I cracked it open to see what's inside.
Again, I think wheeler has correctly identified it as the "mute" device.
IMG_20180811_133315.jpg

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Re: 54 C3 1.4HDI non-start

Post by GiveMeABreak » 11 Aug 2018, 14:37

wheeler wrote:
11 Aug 2018, 13:43
So pin 5 on the grey connetor of the com2000 should be permanent live, pin 4 should be earth & pin 6 should be 12v when the network is awake. Pins 1&2 are the data & data/ wires, you wont get much out them without a scope.
A wiring diagram for the headlamps should give us the rest of the wiring info we need for the time being.
Pins 1 & 3 are the data & data/ wires.
I'll get the headlamp one up shortly.

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Re: 54 C3 1.4HDI non-start

Post by GiveMeABreak » 11 Aug 2018, 14:39

So the hunt is on for the black insurance box then if we're sure it now has one fitted??

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Re: 54 C3 1.4HDI non-start

Post by GiveMeABreak » 11 Aug 2018, 14:49

Headlamps Comms Unit: - very similar
Headlamps.PNG
CodeColourDescription
6V GRGrey6 Pin Connector
MCV0BGreen / YellowMCV00 earth
9013ZMauvebody 1 Van data bus 1
9012ZWhitebody 1 Van data bus 1
BECEZBlueBSI + after ignition output
XC1BWhite1 body VAN 1

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Re: 54 C3 1.4HDI non-start

Post by wheeler » 11 Aug 2018, 14:56

Sorry that was a typo, there is no pin 2 on the diagram.
I take it fuse 4 in the BSI is ok & there is a live supply at it ??